I Don't Like Mondays by Maria Frankland
TPP EP 16

TPP Episode 16 with Maria Frankland

Mark: [00:00:00] What makes a great thriller tick? And what does it take to write one? Welcome to the Thriller Pitch Podcast, where bestselling award-winning and emerging thriller authors share the craft research and real world experiences that power today’s most gripping stories. I am your host, mark p Jay Nadal, and this is episode 16.

Whether you’re writing thrillers or can’t get enough of reading them, this show takes you inside the minds of authors, behind the twists, characters, and moments that keep us turning the page. This week I’m joined by Maria Franklin, a psychological thriller author who writes with relentless discipline, sometimes hitting 5,000 words a day, and draws inspiration from everyday moments to create tense, emotionally charged stories.

We talk about balancing speed with depth, finding inspiration in [00:01:00] unexpected places, and how a Monday morning on a train platform sparked her latest novel.

Mark: Maria, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here today.

Maria: Thank you for inviting me. It’s great to be here.

Mark: I have your book with me. I don’t like Mondays and it is Monday, but I like this Monday ’cause I get to talk to you, which is great. We’re gonna start right with the pitch. Let’s get into it.

Maria: Right. Okay. So I don’t like Mondays is a claustrophobic psychological thriller, and it’s about a woman who wakes from a coma after being rescued from a train track. She has no clue about how she came to be in the path of a train. And she doesn recognize any of the faces around her hospital bed. The faces that proclaimed to be her husband and her two sons.

In fact, the memory of the last 10 years of her life seems to have been wiped away entirely. All she has to rely [00:02:00] on are what her visitors around her bed are telling her that the problem is she doesn’t know who of them she can rely on. She doesn’t know who of them she can trust, and she feels there’s at least one family member who knows more about what’s happened to her that fateful Monday morning than the letting on. So yeah, that’s, that’s the book in a nutshell.

Mark: Great. Thank you. You said claustrophobic psychological. Can you explain what does that claustrophobic mean in this case?

Maria: Well, a lot of it’s set within so the character’s almost like trapped inside herself because she’s kind of lost who she is. So a lot of it is her thinking to herself. But the story itself is quite claustrophobic in that it’s set in the confines of her hospital room, which just adds to that kind of closed in feeling that she has about her situation.

Mark: Yeah, and what sparked the idea for this book?

Maria: Well, I was just standing bored waiting for a train. [00:03:00] I live in Yorkshire in England, waiting for a train down to, London for a conference one Monday morning, and then it hit me, but the idea hit me, not the train.

Mark: That’s good. You weren’t a victim of the same situation.

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: So how do and what idea hits you? If I, what would happen if I got pushed in front of the train right now? Is that what. How’d that

Maria: It was just such a th throne of people there. It was kind of, you know, everyone was surging forward as the train approached, and I kind of thought it would be so easy for somebody to fall onto that track. You know, everybody’s going over the safety line. Everyone’s like pushing and jostling each other and it’d be so easy ’cause my, my mind is terrible being a psych solo officer. You know, I’m always imagining the worst that people could say when I’m like, you know, if somebody wanted to push somebody in the that train, I could get away with it. There’s that many people here. So the kind, the idea just kind of snowballed from that.

Mark: Okay. [00:04:00] And how does that, how did that snowball work for this book? Do you outline your books or do you just write them from that basic idea that you just talked about?

Maria: I do do some outlining, so all my books start with the kind of the seed of an idea like I’ve just described. And then I’ll get to know my characters a little bit. And then I’ll, I’ll sort of flesh out a very basic outline. So really when I start, I might know the twist. If I’m lucky I might know the ending if I’m lucky.

And I might know some of the pull points I’ll hit along the way. But I’m not one of these who sort of says Right, what’s going to happen in chapter one, or what’s gonna happen in chapter two? It kind of, yeah, I’ve, it’s a very basic outline and I find that more exciting as a writer because I set off not really knowing how things are going to unfold, so it makes it more interesting for me. As, as I, as I write, rather than, you know, having it all mapped out in time for me. ’cause characters, they, they just go off on their own tangents. They do their own thing [00:05:00] anyway. So yeah, I don’t try to box it all in before I start.

Mark: Do you find the editing process more challenging? I guess we could speak specifically to this book with that approach. The, the two sides I hear with kind of jumping into the stories that you would end up editing more later. Some people say they don’t, some do, and then the outline often edits a little bit less because they have such an idea of, where they were going from the beginning.

Maria: Yeah. It’s an interesting question that I think with this being my 22nd book, I’ve outlined, sorry, I’ve honed my process quite a lot of, you know, in previous books. And I kind of, I’ve, I’m very aware of my own writing style and, my own process. So, yes, there is a lot of editing to do, but it’s not horrendous.

So it’s kind of, I do my rough first draft, and then I go back and do my second draft. I go from beginning to end every time, so it’s not like I’m jumping about all over the place, [00:06:00] which I would find very difficult if I was having to shift things about. It’s quite a linear process, which is easy, but easier.

So I’d say I go through about four quite detailed drafts before I’m anywhere near, you know, where I could send it to my first reader. So that usually takes me a couple of months to get to that stage.

Mark: Well, so it’s a couple of moments from the idea to, wow, that’s that’s still very fast. A couple of months to write a whole. Looking, have it ready.

Maria: Well, I usually have the ideas germinating for a while. So at the moment I’ve got about four books that are all, you know, looping around in my head, which will be written over the next year or two. So the do germinate in my mind for a while first. So I wouldn’t say it’s from idea to first reader. It’s from where I’m, where I’ve finished doing my little bit of plotting, to where it’s ready for the first reader. It’s about two months, and then a further couple of months before it’s ready to go out into [00:07:00] the world. But my first book took me six years to write, so luckily I’ve got faster, but it’s, you know, it’s been a real learning process and it’s only sort of the last few books where I’m, I’ve really nailed it down. I sort of, I seem to be getting faster and faster at being able to produce my, my work i’m full-time at, well, so.

Mark: yeah. When you wrote this book, how was your daily process? Do you sit down for three, four hours at a time or do you have like a word count goal every day?

Maria: A bit of both really. So when I’m at first draft stage, it is more of a word count goal. So if I do 5,000 words in a day, I’m really, really delighted with that. So. But I’m, I’m really disciplined. I have to be. ’cause if I don’t write, I don’t earn a living.

Mark: Yeah. Okay.

Maria: At least not, you know, this is my job. So I, I treat it as a job and I’m, I’m at my desk. I wouldn’t say I’m here at nine o’clock every single [00:08:00] morning, bang on, because I’m self-employed so it’s lovely to have flexibility. But I’m, I’m at my desk every morning ’cause that’s when I’m most creative. That’s when I’ve got the most energy. So I tend to write in blocks of about 45 minutes and I set a timer and then I have a break.

I walk away from my desk and I might take the dog out or go make a drink or something. And then I come back and I have another 45 minutes, but I can write about a thousand and words in 45 minutes when I’m first drafting. So that’s only five blocks of that in a day. And I’ve got my 5,000 words. I’m not saying the brilliant words at the first draft stage ’cause I’m really just banging them out.

But once I get to second draft stage, it’s more that I’m trying to spend about four hours. A day then, again with lots of breaks, but you know, it’s a different process when you’re second drafting ’cause it’s, uh, well, you’re not just bashing the words out. You’re not just, you know, getting the story down.

You, you’re actually, that’s when the writing skill really comes in when you’re [00:09:00] doing the second draft. So. Yeah. So I’d say, yeah, my, my, my writing day is earlier in the day I am writing, I’m working on my booking progress no matter what stage it’s at. And then later in the day, like a lot of writers, that’s when I’m doing my business side of things and admin and everything.

So it’s, it’s absolutely full time, but I feel really lucky to be doing this.

Mark: That’s awesome. 5,000 words a day. That’s a new goal for me. Shoot. For, I do not get what?

Maria: I.

Mark: Okay, I’ll try and make up for those words in the weekend. 5,000. That’s impressive. Wow. Well, good for you. Well, 22 books. Has there anything that has changed? I mean, other than the, obviously book one is book one for everybody, but let’s say like between like book five for book 10 and 15 now 22, has any of the process changed for you or have you just honed this in and you’re like, yeah, this works for me this is how I do it.

Maria: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve hone it indefinitely, but I’m still [00:10:00] like a lot of writers as I’m doing, especially my first draft, I’m typing away and I’m thinking, this is rubbish. Who on earth is ever going to want to read? And I’ve still got that same self doubt that I had with my first book every single time. I can’t shake that.

then every time I finish a book, I still wonder if I can do it all over again. But I have very demanding readers, so I’ve got to do it all over again. ’cause I always say, when is your next book? I’ve read everything. Come on. So I’ve kind of, you know, I’m, I’m answerable to them. So I, I don’t think, I think maybe what’s changed I have got more confident.

I do know I can do it now. I, I know I, whereas my first book, it took me six years. I was constantly stopping and starting. I guess what I’ve got what more now I’ve got the time. I’m, I’m full time at this. Whereas before I was fitting it around a day job to start with, and I feel very lucky in that respect.

Mark: That gives hope to a lot of writers out there who [00:11:00] are in that position and myself included, where we’re, we’re working toward getting away from full-time jobs or part-time jobs to be able to do that

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: congratulations on being able to do that.

Maria: Thank you. Thank you.

Mark: Did any of the situations that came up in this book mimic anything from your real life as far as inspiration from the relationships or some of the conflict that happened in this book.

Maria: I guess so. I think with every book I write, there’s little threads of me in them, in especially in the main character and in the relationships. So I make no secret of the fact that I have. A really awful first marriage. So there’s, there’s little threads of that in, in sort of the, the marriage situation that, that’s in this book.

So yeah, there is that. And then, you know, there’s, there’s family conflict have been no stranger to that, like [00:12:00] lots of us. So little bits of that go into it. And my current husband always recognizes little things that he might have said in my characters that I’ve pinched and put into the book. Yeah. So I think, yeah, there, there’s, there’s real life in every single book, thankfully.

Nothing as drastic. Yeah, it, it certainly, you know, it certainly finds its way in the. I can’t think of a particular scene as such that it’s, thankfully I’ve never woke up out of a coma having been hit by,

Mark: Let’s hope not.

Maria: yeah.

Mark: the process from like who gets your book? ’cause you mentioned the sending your book off to your first reader. Is it from, you said, may might be three or four drafts, and then it goes to your first reader. Is that an alpha reader? Essentially? How was that process from, for this book at least from. Now the first draft is done. How does it get to publication and when do you know? When do you think it’s ready for publication?[00:13:00]

Maria: All right. Well, I don’t think a book is ever completely ready. I think we can, we can tinker with, with it, you know, and, and tinker with it some more. But I think when once I get to that stage where I’m just tinkering, I know that it’s kind. Of ready for the next stage then, and the next stage in, in my case is my husband.

I should credit him as well with the facts that I’m able to do this full time. ‘Cause in lockdown I got the, the chance like lots of us did to, to work at this full time. It was like, you know, suddenly I had all this time to go for it. So I used it. When lockdown ended and I could have gone back to work, he said, no, you carry on.

And he worked two jobs to support me until I brought the whole thing into profit. So that belief in me was just absolutely amazing. And I’d. I couldn’t have got to where I’ve got to so fast without him behind me like that. So, you know, I’ve, I really do credit him there and he’s my first [00:14:00] reader as well.

So when I’m at that stage where I feel the books kind of as f as good as I can get it, I pass it to him. And he’s usually read it within a week. And he is giving me feedback and doing comments on, you know, on the Word document. And if he thinks something’s rubbish, he doesn’t mince his words.

He is brutally honest. And he, he’s, he is really good at it. I mean, he’s not, he’s actually a probation officer by, you know, that’s his job. But he’s, he, he does read a lot, so he’s, he, he’s actually really good at this process and I’m incredibly lucky to, to have him. So once I get all this feedback from him, I then implement it.

We both do a proofread and it then goes to a team that I’ve built, up of, of my readers and 50 of them get a copy then for feedback. So they’re kind of my beta readers. Well, the beta readers, ARC readers and street team all, all as one really, this [00:15:00] team of 50 people, they, they, they’re just wonderful.

I dunno what I’d do without them. So, and after that, after those 50 pairs of eyes have all been on the book, that’s when it’s ready to go.

Mark: Cool. Okay.

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: Wow. How did you build that? I’m getting off topic, but I’m curious. How did you get 50 readers?

Maria: Yeah, that it’s been a gradual process, really. So, uh, back in 2019, before I ever published, I started building it and it’s just through my mailing list. I invite people to, you know. I call it Frank Fans, my group on Facebook. And I just invite people through my mailing list once they’ve been on a certain length of time and opened, you know, what they’ve already had and they’re engaging, you know, with me and reading my books.

I say, would you like to come and join my reader group? And, you know, some do, some don’t. Those that do, maybe one in 10 of them become like [00:16:00] really engaged, kind of like super fans and they want to be part of this process and help me with, they’ll look, getting the advanced copies.

And, it’s a really lovely group there actually that I’ve got on Facebook. There’s, there’s about 700 readers in there now. So when I’ve got a new book coming out, I, I, they ought 10, you know, so I say, right, which 50 readers would like a copy. And some of them get taken one every single time. Some of them are new to it.

But yeah, so that it’s just simply recruited through my message recruited. It sounds bad, but yeah. I don’t know if recruited is the right word, but yeah, that’s, that’s how they come to be in my, in my sort of closed group on Facebook. Yeah.

Mark: Wow. Well done. Okay.

Maria: Thank you.

Mark: So we’re gonna jump to talking about characters a little bit. There’s a sense because of the way the book is written that we don’t know who necessarily to like or to dislike, especially as it’s going, it seems like there’s almost always a villain that won’t [00:17:00] give it too many spoilers, but,

Maria: it’s hard, isn’t it?

Mark: yes.

Well, you mentioned claustrophobic, but how did you, like, how did it feel writing this? Knowing, oh, obviously you knew the ending and I do now, but, or I guess you didn’t know it while you were writing it because you didn’t outline it.

Maria: Yeah, I mean this is very much, I can say this, it’s very much a who done it and kind of what happened, kind of a book, and I didn’t know when I started writing what was, what had happened. I just, this is one where I really did set off writing and was surprised as it went on. So I did know, like the, the first twist I already had that in my mind. Obviously I can’t say what that is, so I knew that as I was, as I was beginning. But a lot of it did come as a complete surprise to me as as I was going on through it all. Sorry, just I’ve got away from the question a bit there. I think.

Mark: well, when it comes to characters, when you’re planning, especially for this book, these [00:18:00] characters, are you also just putting it together as you go, you’re figuring out who these people are and then they are doing what they do, or do you plan an arc for them so that you know from beginning to end what their journey is gonna be like, at least for the, some of the major players in the book?

Maria: Yeah. I, yeah, with this book I did, I kind of had a spidergram where I knew who was related to who and how. ’cause it was quite a complex family. But some of those relationships deepened and darkened as, as I started off writing. And some people who are. Weren’t supposed to be such major players in the book, became major players just because the characters evolved as I was writing them. So as I am writing, I tend to walk my dog at the end of the day, and that’s when I chew over the book as I’m walking and I’m constantly posing what if. Set the story and thinking, how could I deepen this? How could I make it more exciting? How can I make it less obvious what’s going to happen? [00:19:00] And I’m constantly posing these what ifs and that helps me evolve the stories I’m writing. So in terms of the characters, I kind of, I have a vague idea what they look like I’m setting off, and a bit of their backstory and a bit of what they’re trying to achieve in the book. What it is they want, they and what’s standing in their way kind of thing. So it’s all, all quite textbook. I don’t, but I don’t get to know them massively. Yeah.

Mark: In Cathy’s character arc, possible spoiler alert, warning to listeners as I ask this question although it’s early in the book, I think when she’s meeting with her physio and kind of finds her mother’s love, so to speak was that intentional as planning that she would go from the moment she woke up where she was sort of disconnected from everybody. Like who are these kids and why are they happy to see me? And kind of not grossed out, but almost like weirded out by this whole situation, which is [00:20:00] understandable ’cause she doesn’t remember them. And even though she doesn’t have her memory back, she finds this like essentially a mother’s love for those children.

Maria: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I always knew right from the outset that that was going to come back. That, that was planned for. And yeah, Kathy’s character Act was more planned than anybody else’s in the book. I kind of knew how she would start and how she would evolve, and I do think her character transforms from beg the beginning to the end of the book, and that was always intentional. Yeah. I couldn’t have kept those two poor little boys in the situation they were in where the, their mother didn’t recognize.

Mark: I

Maria: Yeah. That was quite hard actually, you know, to, to do that to them.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. I felt bad for them too. I felt for them while it was going on, so,

Maria: Yeah. Yeah.

Mark: Was there any research that went into the amnesia side of it that might have impacted the book as you were writing it?

Maria: Yes. Sort of the, [00:21:00] certainly the names of, of the condition she had. And you know how quick it can be recovered from and how quickly the memory can come back. So because that memory loss she suffered, that amnesia was all almost made her like an unreliable narrator, which was the device I wanted to use. But yes, it did need some research. And as always, you know, Google is our best friend at times like this. I dunno where I’d be without Google. And like many thriller authors, I’m sure yourself included, my, search history is very questionable.

Mark: Yeah.

Maria: But yeah, so there were, there was certainly research needed into that, but also really dodgy research. What speed could somebody be hit by a train and survive and, you know, and, and stuff like, where Yeah. Where could somebody have a, a, a be hit by a train on their body, you know, and not be killed immediately. And, you know, it’s sort of that trait that research associated with being hit by [00:22:00] a train.

So.

Mark: So nobody showed up at your door during the making of this book. Okay, that’s good

Maria: Not yet. Yeah. Yeah. But you’ll have to vouch for me if anybody ever does.

Mark: If you suddenly disappear. When you’re writing a book like this and people, you’re, as a reader, I was essentially on the edge of my seat, the whole story, because that who done and then this unfolds, and then that twist, and then that unfolds when the book is done. Is there a certain emotion or reaction you’re hoping people walk away with at the end of it all Don’t.

Maria: Oh, that’s a good question. Probably one of gratitude for their own family and their own lives, because no matter how much they, how bad they might think their lot is when they’re being involved with this particular family for 300 pages, they’re going to walk away thinking, oh, well, actually my answer, but after all.

Mark: All right.

Maria: There’s that. But yeah, on a more serious note, I think possibly that no matter how bad a reader might think things are in [00:23:00] their own life, there’s always that hope to be able to turn things around like Cathy did in the story, she really does change everything, for the better. And I think if it, you know, to give that reader, a reader that kind of hope that that’s possible, maybe leave them with that, if that makes sense.

Mark: Maybe don’t try jumping in front of a train to cause amnesia to get that change you’re looking for. But yeah, no, that makes

Maria: yeah, yeah.

Mark: So I have a question from, the author from the last show, ’cause we do a carry it forward kind of question. Thomas Stewart was the last guest on the show, and he asked, do you find that when you’re writing you mirror yourself, but you don’t realize it until you completed the story?

Maria: You mirror yourself.

Mark: So you, I guess you kind of touched on this earlier a little bit.

Maria: yeah, yeah, we did. I wouldn’t say I mirror myself. But like I said, my yeah, before there is, there is threads of me in every single character. So sometimes when people [00:24:00] say, oh, the, the main character was really unlikable, I think, oh, that’s me. That’s partly me. Yeah, because, yeah, there, there are little bits of me in every, especially the main characters and they are usually female main characters as well.

There’s only maybe four of my books where I’ve used a male protagonist, so. Yeah, but even with one of those at, at first, I’ve changed it all now, but before the book was released, I was accused of having the male character just a little bit too sort of feminine. , And it was unrealistic how we might think and be according to feedback I got.

So I had to change that. So there were threads of me, even in the male characters. So, yeah. So yeah, lots, lots of me is mirrored.

Mark: At the end of the story, when you’re done writing it has there been a moment where you didn’t realize that something about this story mirrored you, but you didn’t know it until after the story was [00:25:00] done? No. Shocking. Like a shock, almost like a shocking reveal or like, wow, I processed that trauma without realizing it.

Maria: yeah, I don’t think, not with this one. I don’t think, I think I’ve possibly had that with other books I’ve written. But yeah, not with, not with this one. Yeah. Okay.

Mark: Patreon member question, what gives you the greatest sense of value when you get feedback from readers?

Maria: Oh. I think statements such as your book got me out of a reading slump. Just lovely to hear. As readers, we do sometimes find ourselves in a slump where we haven’t read for ages or we pick up a book and we just can’t get into it. We can’t concentrate, particularly when other things are going on in life.

So when a reader says to me, you’ve got me out of a reading slump, that’s, that’s really nice to hear. Or sometimes I’ll hear, I’ll get emails from readers and they’re in hospital and, you know, that kind [00:26:00] of thing. Life’s really tough, but my book’s, giving them an escape from that. It’s a distraction and the messaging to thank me for keeping them entertained for a few hours.

Or sometimes I get messages saying you’ve kept me awake all night. And that they’re equally nice to hear. So I always apologize for that. But then putting brackets, I’m not sorry, really.

Mark: Sorry, not sorry. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah, I love getting messages from my readers. It’s the, the greatest thing about my job other than, other than the writing.

So, because I’ve, I’m now into my sixth year of doing this full time. A lot of my readers have all, you know, they’ve become friends to be honest, I’ve not really met any of them in person. Hopefully, you know, in the years to come, I can do something about that. But they’re, they’re just fantastic. He’s so supportive and, I obviously wouldn’t be where I am now without them. So I’m always grateful and always happy to hear from them. And I do pride myself in, in, in answering every [00:27:00] single email that I receive. And I try to answer every single social media comment as well but that’s becoming harder and harder, because they’re just, obviously they’re starting to snowball.

Mark: Yeah.

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: Yeah. I understand how powerful that is though. I mean, I’ve been in, in writing slumps like that, and even as a, as a writer in a writing slump, I’ve been you know, just not feeling good about a certain story. Then you get one of those emails that comes in where a reader just says, yeah, I love this book, and, and then suddenly you’re, you’re like, it’s like engine fuel or jet fuel for your writing. Just hearing those positive things. Yeah, it’s really nice.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, it’s a good idea. I have a folder in my email account where they’re really lovely, emails. I get, I file them all. And if I am having a down day, if I’ve had a bad review, all the words are flowing or whatever, I, I have a look at that into, you know, my lovely emails that I or I or I pop into my reader group on Facebook. ’cause they’re always great on that. So, yeah. Yeah. But it’s, it’s the [00:28:00] readers that keep me going.

Mark: that’s a great tip.

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: Yeah. Put them aside and look at them once in a while. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah.

Mark: If you could pick one thing that you felt led to your success so far, what would it be? What worked best to get you where you are now?

Maria: Ooh, probably absolute tenacity. And not having a plan B. So, thi this is kind of all, yeah. All I want to do is, is to be an author. It’s, you know, it’s burned at me since childhood and it was only when I got into my forties that I’ve kind of really gone for it. I think I’m totally unemployable now.

So I couldn’t go about, I’m here to work for a, for a boss now. I love being my own boss and I’ve never worked harder than I do. But I think it’s that tenacity, that absolute drive and determination and really, really wanting it. ’cause I’ve got 24 hours in my day, the same as anybody [00:29:00] else but I’ve chosen to channel. I’ve reached my moment into, you know, developing myself as a writer and improving my craft and learning as much as I can and just, you know, and obviously learning from my mistakes, but most importantly, getting my backside at my desk and writing. And you’ve to be, you know, it takes so much discipline ’cause I have many a day that I just say, oh, God can’t be bothered. I could just have a day off. And I’ve just, I’ve really, once I’ve got into the flow, then I’m fine. I’m aware, but sometimes I just really can’t be bothered. And I think, but yeah, it’s that tenacity and that drive and that’s, I think any writer who wants to make it and get into double figures with the books has to have it, otherwise you don’t get beyond maybe the first couple unless you’ve really got that drive and that determination to make it.

Mark: Thank you. That’s great. Yeah. Last question. Where can listeners find your [00:30:00] book?

Maria: Well, I don’t, like, Mondays is like all my other books on the, it’s on Amazon and Audible and everything I have is free to read in Kindle Limited, so everything’s exclusive to Amazon. So, yeah, on that or, everything’s listed also on my website, which is maria franklin.co uk. Yeah, and I’m on all the usual places, TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. I love doing my tiktoks.

Mark: All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time. This was great. I’m inspired having heard that story and how much work you do and it gets me all Jews stopped to get back, to get back to my next book, so thank you. If you don’t mind sticking around for a few minutes after the interview to get into the after show with our rapid fire questions for Patreon members.

Maria: Okay. Yep, no

All right, thank you.

Mark: Thanks for listening and make sure you’re following the show so you don’t miss episode 17 With [00:31:00] TR Hendricks, author of the Military Thriller, the instructor, we talk about how his experience as a marine shaped the story, what it takes to write authentic action, and how perseverance turned more than 60 submissions into a publishing deal. I wanna go deeper. You can get early access, bonus content, and the after show with rapid fire questions, plus the chance to ask future guests your own.

Over on Patreon links are in the show notes.