The Ritualist by Adam Roach
TPP EP 23

TPP Episode 23 with Adam Roach

Mark: [00:00:00] Coming up on the Thriller Pitch podcast.

Adam: I entered this flash fiction horror contest about a guy who is walking through Bryant Park in New York, gets attacked by a demon, and then the demon flees, and he goes chasing after the demon and watches him transform into a person. And so then the question was, was he actually a demon or was it all in the guy’s head? The judges liked it, but they even said it doesn’t work as a short a hundred word story. It would actually work better as a full book.

Mark: What makes a great thriller tick, and what does it take to write one? Welcome to the Thriller Pitch Podcast, where bestselling award-winning and emerging thriller authors share the craft research and real world experiences that power today’s most gripping stories. I’m your host, mark p Jay Nadal.

Whether you’re writing thrillers or can’t get enough of reading them, this show takes you inside the minds of the authors, behind the twist. Characters and moments that keep us turning the page.

This week I’m [00:01:00] joined by Adam Roach, author of the Ritualist. We talk about how his entire thriller series began with a 100 word flash fiction horror entry. How he expanded that into a series, why he writes scenes by visualizing them like a movie playing in his head, and how he shifts between outlining and discovery writing.

If you’re interested in how a tiny spark becomes a full thriller, this is a conversation you don’t wanna miss. Adam, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show

Adam: Thank you. Glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Mark: and thank you for your book. I’m gonna show it on the screen for our YouTube watchers, the Ritualist. Thank you for sending me an autograph copy. Really appreciate that.

Adam: Yeah.

Mark: So let’s get right into the pitch. Pitch me the ritual list.

Adam: Yeah, so the Rich list is my debut thriller. I launched on June 10th this year, and it follows my main character, Vince Tanaka creating a series similar to Alex Cross and James Patterson. [00:02:00] And it follows him. He’s transitioning from the NYPD to the FBI. He’s in San Diego getting ready to start the FBI when he gets a call that he was not expecting and not wanting from his old captain.

And it simply said he’s back which means the rich list has returned. Three years ago, the ritual list dropped three bodies in three days across churches in Manhattan. And now he has resurfaced and the first body has already dropped. And so Vince knows he now has just a little over two days to get back to New York and to catch this killer before he disappears again for another three years.

And so the story takes up of him going to New York and he and his old partner Leo Alvarez, go on a hunt to find this killer. And you realize very quickly that. There’s a lot more than just this killer at play. And it’s, like I said, it’s the, it’s the opening book. It’s the first book in a series that’s following this character. There’s definitely a bit of a cliffhanger. The story is complete, but there’s a subplot that definitely leaves a cliffhanger for book two, which is gonna be launching here in just a few weeks, actually called the [00:03:00] Architect. So, it’s coming out here December 16th, it should be launching. So, yeah, excited for that.

Mark: Oh, awesome. That’ll be close to when this is live. Actually. It’ll be available when we’re, when this episode actually airs. Awesome. So what sparked the idea for this book?

Adam: Yeah, that’s a great question. And so that probably kicked off originally a handful of years ago I did a flash fiction contest, and so I know you’re an author as well. And it, it’s way easier to write a 70,000 word book than a hundred word story.

And people might not think that’s the case, but it’s extremely hard to write a story in a hundred words.

I challenge anyone to try and go do it. So I entered this flash fiction horror kind of contest about a guy who is walking through Bryant Park in New York, gets attacked by a demon, and then the demon flees, and he goes chasing after the demon and watches him transform into a person. And so then the question was, was he actually a demon or was it all in the guy’s head? The judges liked it, but they even said like, it doesn’t work as a short a hundred, a hundred word story. It would actually [00:04:00] work better as a full book and so when I had finished wrapping, my co-author book, with JD Barker that I just finished I knew I want, I knew I wanted to start the story and I’d already been thinking about the idea and I knew I wanted a main character. I knew I wanted a big series. And so I thought, Hey, let me take this short story and use this as kind of the catalyst to launch into this new series that I’m gonna launch.

Mark: Do you consider yourself a plotter or an outline or a answer as I guess is the more popular term?

Adam: My answer to that is yes, both.

Mark: Okay.

Adam: What I found for myself is that it really depends on the story. I’m constantly evolving. One thing I’ve learned as an author I haven’t been doing this forever. I’ve only been doing it for a few years now, and one thing I’m learning is neither is right or wrong for each book that you do. So like with the Ritualist I kind of did an outline, but then I very quickly threw it away and just went at it like I’m a very impatient person and so to outline a full book is very hard for me because I just wanna start writing the story.

I get really excited about it. And then I’ve tried doing like outline 10 chapters and [00:05:00] write those and then outline the next 10.

And then by that point, then I just keep writing. I don’t really continue that strategy. But like the book I did with JD Barker, it was a full outline. The full book had to be outlined, everything from start to finish. And then with the new one I’m launching, it was a little bit of both again, like did some outlining, some writing, some outlining some writing, and just kind of went in that direction.

So I think it depends on the story, and what book you wanna write? A brand new one. I’m running right now. I’m doing, I did a full outline, just because it fit better with this story and where I wanted it to go.

Mark: And when you outline, are you outlining characters? Obviously we’re looking at the plot in the chapters, but are you also outlining characters? The world, the situations?

Adam: Not really. I find for myself that’s all just kind of in my head. I typically have spent before I start a new book when I get about three quarters of the way through a book, I’m thinking about what’s coming next. I’m starting to plan in my head what the characters are, what the stories are, how’s it gonna work. And I typically, my wife and I’ll go on walks every week and I’ll typically just kind of talk through it with her to kind of [00:06:00] formulate how different, strategies are gonna work. So the outline itself really only comes with the overall plot the character arcs and the character storylines are just kind of in my head. I let them evolve on the page and let the characters tell me what they want to do.

Mark: Do you find it hard to keep track of that over time when it’s in your head and not written down? And you have a, you have quite a cast of characters too, so you have a lot of personalities to switch between.

Adam: Not really. And I don’t know, maybe that’s, I need to go get my brain checked or something. I don’t know. But it’s not, not, not really. ’cause every time I write a book, all I’m really doing is telling the story that, of the movie I’m playing in my head. And so for me, the characters just are who they are. And I think every character that anybody writes, there’s a little piece of you in every character in, in some way, shape, or form.

And yeah, so I, I haven’t yet, right, so this, but this is book one, so ask me again, like four books from now if I’ve changed my mind.

Mark: Okay. At its core, what would you say this story is [00:07:00] like and what challenge did it represent? As for writing it.

Adam: That’s a good question. I would say at the core it is a battle of good versus evil. My goal in writing this book, in this series is, I always love the dichotomy of good and evil, yin and yang of a Batman and Joker, Holmes im Moriarty. I really like bad guys that you almost can understand, and you almost feel a little bad for in a certain ways. I just, I love to challenge people’s thinking in that way. And so that’s what I’ve done with Rich List. I’ve tried to deal with the architect, and really just creating that dichotomy of I said good versus evil. That, that challenge of really smart, good guy, really smart, bad guy and how’s it all gonna play out in the, in the long term.

Mark: And did that present challenges for you in this book?

Adam: To a certain extent, yes, because I always wanna make sure that the bad guy isn’t too good also. Right? Because if [00:08:00] he’s always got a reason, sometimes you don’t want them to have a reason or you want them to be more evil. And so you gotta find that balance. And with this book, I don’t think I found as big of a challenge.

I did definitely a little bit more of a challenge in the next one to do that. ‘Cause it’s a different story, but this one I think, ’cause it was my first one, I was excited about it and I kind of had been thinking about it for a while, that it was just living in me for a while. I just needed to get out on the page.

Mark: Okay. The structure of this one, you, interestingly, you started with a character that at the prison, and then we go into our antagonist and then we go into our protagonist. Why that start to a book where. I liked it because it’s, I have like an inside that as a reader I have like an inside edge that, you know, it’s fun to let the detective try and figure out what’s happening. On the flip side, it’s trying to keep track of everyone I’ve just met.

Adam: Yeah. I would like to say it was [00:09:00] intentional, and that I, I was some genius and had this all planned from the start. But in reality it’s the exact opposite. I had written about, I. Half to almost two thirds of this book, thinking in my head that Vince had three days to catch this killer, when in reality he had like 48 hours, if not a little bit less. And what I realized, the way that I had structured the book originally it was thinking like he’s got 72 hours. I can pull things out, I can draw things out a little bit. I can slowly introduce characters. And then when I realized about halfway in that, oh no, he’s got like 48 hours at the most. All of this drawn out stuff I have to make happen in the beginning. So all that character introduction that’s kind of thrown at the reader, initially was because I completely had messed up my timeline and so I had to put it all in the beginning and figure out a way to make it work. So it, it seemed to work as well as it could. I definitely got from a few people that like, man, there’s a lot of characters. In the very beginning I was like, yeah, I know. Sorry.

Mark: Did you do [00:10:00] a whole first draft, realize that, and then the second draft was like a fairly big rewrite, or did you realize it during the way, on the way

Adam: I realized it during the way, but I was so deep in along the way that I would had to completely redo the entire book and restructure the entire architecture of it. And even like the three days. Mantra would, might have disappeared at that point. So with everything happening the way it had to happen in terms of them even catching the bad guy, all those things had to be lined up in that certain way to make that happen. And if I didn’t do it like I did it, it would’ve been almost a complete different book.

Mark: Okay. When readers finish the book, what do you hope they’re thinking or feeling after they’re done?

Adam: I have to get the next one. I mean, truly, that’s what it is. My, my goal with every book I write is I want to do two things. One. Make people so glad they read it. There’s [00:11:00] nothing worse in my mind than reading a book and you’re like, I just wasted my time.

And when you feel let down by the twist at the end, or you feel let down by this, the big buildup to the end, and you almost feel like the writer wrote themselves into corner and just said, up, here’s my way out. My goal is every reader, when they close that book, they feel satisfied. They’re super excited to read whatever’s next, and there’s some twist at the end where they’re like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that happened.

Mark: How do you structure a twist? Do you, for this book? Well, we’re not gonna talk about the twist itself, obviously, because that would be a giveaway, but did you have it in your head the whole time? Because you’ve been thinking about this, or at three quarter mark, you’re like, oh, that’s what we’re gonna do with that.

Adam: No. With this one and subsequent books, I had a pretty good idea of what it was gonna be for a while. ‘Cause like I said, I love the dichotomy of like a Batman versus Joker, Holmes versus Moriarty, where you’ve got that big bad mastermind kind of character. I love movies like that too, where it’s like, you think [00:12:00] it’s this and it’s this. Right? My favorite movie of all time is The Usual Suspects. That twisted the end when I was 13, 14 years old and saw that, it blew my mind. So yeah, I think so far of the books I’ve written, I typically know what the twist is going to be and how it’s going to hit for people so far. And I feel like for me, in the books that I’m writing I almost have to know that ’cause that’s the ending, right? Like you have to know the end before you start writing it. If I don’t know what that twist is, I’m kind of like, why am I even writing this?

Mark: Yeah. Okay. In the making of this book, the dedication to your wife, I’m always curious about the support network behind the making of a book because the, a lot of the great books I read have a strong support network. Behind the scenes and it was nice to see that you, you put that into your dedication. What was that support like for this book?

Adam: Unending. It’s, her [00:13:00] support is absolutely everything. Like I said we do a walk every, we, I live in San Diego, so, it’s Sunshine, 364 days a year and so we do a walk every Saturday at the beach. And typically those walks are talking about whatever I’m currently riding. And she’s kinda my sounding board.

And she, she’s always asking the why’s, like, well, well, but, but why? But why, but why? And I, and most time, ’em, I hate it. ‘Cause it makes me think,

But it’s, it’s everything. And she knows that this is the path that I’m on. This is the goal is that this becomes the only thing I do. And with that comes a lot of work and effort.

I spent the entire last weekend with my head and computer trying to get book two out to my arc reader. So yeah, her support is absolutely everything. If I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t have the drive. I have for sure.

Mark: Does she read a draft of your book before it goes to your ARC readers or.

Adam: No, she doesn’t, mainly, I mean, she does a ton of audio books, but she doesn’t sit down long enough to really read a lot of times, so she’s, she’s still working through the ritual list as we speak. She’ll read it like as we’re going on [00:14:00] trips or whatever was we’re driving. She’ll, she’ll read and stuff like that. But we’re always talking about the story, so she knows what’s happening. She knows what’s coming. And it’s a little scary, and I don’t recommend this for everybody, but I’ve been sending my books out. So the ritualist just, it just went out to ARC Readers and I didn’t have beta read, no one had read it. I just sent it out to ARC Readers. And I did the same thing with book two. So we’ll see how it goes. I don’t recommend doing that all the time, but at least for these first two books, it’s just kind of how I did it. And we will, we’ll adjust as, as time goes on, for sure.

Mark: Are you hoping ARC readers give feedback and then there’s time for change, or I should say in this, the ritual list, was there time to make adjustments if an ARC reader brought anything to you? If they did.

Adam: I guess there could have been, yes, but they didn’t which I was pleasantly surprised by, I’ve got a solid, I mean I pay for a very solid editor. Lemme say that up front too, that he does copy line edit and a little development in certain, in terms of, he calls things out like, this doesn’t make sense. You might wanna change this. This doesn’t fit with the storyline up here. So he’s almost a pseudo alpha beta reader for me in the editing [00:15:00] process. But there would’ve been time for the arc. Sure, there always is, in my opinion. But I didn’t have to, it all made sense. So yeah.

Mark: Okay. What research went into this, into the creation of this book?

Adam: To be honest, not a ton in the sense of I have been reading thrillers and this type of book for decades. So I feel like I know the genre really well. I love thriller movies. I’ll read or watch almost any kind of thriller that’s been out there. And so I definitely studied James Patterson a lot over the years and how he does story and how he writes books and how, and just not just reefer and joint, but like I would just say, oh, that’s why he did this and that’s how he did that. And so over time there’s always been that research, but I didn’t necessarily sit down and like start researching I PD facts or FBI facts. What I try, I don’t, I don’t try and make my books police procedural. I try and put just enough in it to make it real, but it’s more about [00:16:00] the overall story than it is about the details of how a police as investigation goes.

Mark: Okay. What about the church and the cults and all that, that has kind of steamed throughout

Adam: Yeah, I did a little bit of research for that. So as I was wanting to find the right churches and stuff, none of those churches are actual churches, but they’re very close to an actual church sort of thing. I always try to be just off. Of an actual location in New York.

But, I spent quite a bit of time in New York over the last couple years also, myself, so I, know the city a little bit enough to know like the sounds and just kinda all that side of the storyline, and the cold aspects. I did do some research into that and just making sure that things were accurate and how cults operate and such and such.

Mark: Okay. Were you ever worried that given like the church and almost the self manipulation of religion, that would come back with people saying anything?

Adam: I don’t think so because it wasn’t necessarily, I mean, I’m a religious person myself. I go to church every Sunday. And I wasn’t necessarily [00:17:00] bashing a religion per se as much as it was a deranged person’s safety spot. And like he thinks in the book, he’s saving people in that sense. So I know a lot about religion and spiritual side of things I felt like I was coming from a place of understanding and not trying to denigrate any religion specifically is more a disturbed individual.

Mark: Yeah. A question from Melissa Miller, who was the author from the last episode She asked did you relate to or have empathy for your antagonist? I ask it now because it kind of fits where we’re at.

Adam: There really tough empathy for my antagonist. I feel like a little bit, yeah. Empathy, not relate, but empathy. And like I said earlier, that’s my goal is that I want to build antagonist that’s you almost feel a little sorry for, you’re almost a little empathetic for it. Like you, you almost understand why they’re doing [00:18:00] what they’re doing. I’m not saying it’s gonna be every bad guy that I ever write, but at least right now, I’m having fun trying to find that balance between, that good versus evil and that anyone can go bad potentially in certain ways. So yeah.

Mark: Who is the most fun character for you to write?

Adam: Oh, that’s a great question. I love writing Vince. I love writing Vince and his wife Liz. I think that that’s a fun dynamic and I pull a lot from my own personal marriage for how they interact and stuff like that. Vince has been a super fun character to write so far. I was just like writing the dynamic between Vince and Leo and it was funny as I was writing this book obviously Leo’s not gonna continue in the series wholly because Vince is going to the FBI and he’s gonna be on the other coast. But I found myself almost wondering, like, do I change the whole mantra here and keep him in the nipd so they can keep working together? Because I had so much fun writing these characters and I was like. I’m not writing these characters, I’m gonna have to write all new characters for book two. But yeah, so I, I say Vince is [00:19:00] probably my favorite character to write. And then there’s a antagonist I won’t say, but has been super fun to, to work with and to write in that storyline.

Mark: Okay. Was there a scene or a moment that was the hardest to write in this story, creatively or emotionally for the impact?

Adam: That’s a great question. I don’t. Nothing comes to mind off the top of my head. Maybe a little bit of the scene with the antagonist in the park with the demon. Just a little heavy to write that, thinking about like, because again, I tried to visualize everything that’s happening and to put yourself in that position, it’s, a little freaky in that sense.

Mark: One of the things I really appreciated, I don’t possible, spoiler alert, I don’t think so though, but it’s at the end, but I’m not giving away. What happens is, in the final moments with the final victim and the girlfriend and her the realism of her having to decide whether or not, because it was almost a [00:20:00] casual relationship or early relationship stage, whether or not she was gonna continue in that relationship. And that was, I thought that was a very powerful thought, because usually it’s sacrificial, you know, oh, I have to, I’ll be with them. But she actually stopped to say, I don’t know if I can do this.

Adam: Yep.

Mark: How is that to write?

Adam: yeah. I sat in that scene for a little bit, ’cause the question was. Does she stay or does she go? And I thought about it and I went back and forth. And then I thought to your point, you know, it being a casual relationship, that it made sense that she was gonna go, and also because of other things that happened with her, previous to this book that kind of has alluded to previous to this book. She’s had some trauma and she wasn’t really in a place to be able to take on more in that sense. And so it was an interesting scene to write and it was a little bit difficult to make that decision. ‘Cause as a [00:21:00] writer you’re realizing based on this choice, it’s gonna completely change how other things happen within the storylines moving forward even.

And so it was a, it was a powerful, impactful moment to make that decision. And how Vince interacts with her and almost acts as a big brother of sorts. A little more mature, a little more grounded. And, I sat also in her question back to him. Again, not to get into spoilers, but, I sat in that response, like, how is he gonna respond to this question? And again, I just kind of put myself in the shoes of Vince. If it was me being asked this question, how would I respond? And so that’s kind of what I, that’s why I responded how Vince responded the way he did.

Mark: In book two, does that play out more without spoiling book two? Yeah. Okay.

Adam: Yes. Yeah. And I’ll, what I will say about book two and I don’t, one of my ARC readers, I don’t even know if they have finished it yet, but they had asked me a question in an email. And because of that question, it created a whole storyline [00:22:00] in book two for me. If you never know, if you read my books and you ask me a question, you’re, you might create big, creating a storyline in a future book. So,

Mark: Nice.

Adam: yeah.

Mark: What advice would you give to someone who just published their first or second book?

Adam: I’ve heard it said many times and so true. Write the next one.

Mark: Yeah.

Adam: Yeah, I mean, you’re not gonna get wealthy off one book, that’s for sure. I think any established author knows that 100%. And just treat it as a learning experience, one book doesn’t mean the end. One book is just the beginning and there’s a lot to learn for sure. Especially if you’re trying to be self-published and you’re trying to make a career out of it, but you don’t need to learn it all in a day. And really it’s about patient and working on the next one. Those are the biggest thing I’m always having to remind myself is be patient. I’m trying to get there as fast as possible and you just can’t do that with one book. You need a lot. And so the only thing you can do is write the next one. Just keep living life and just keep enjoying the process. Keep enjoying [00:23:00] learning.

Mark: Yeah. Thank you. If you had to pick one thing that you felt has led to your success so far, what would it be?

Adam: It’s funny you say that ’cause I obviously don’t view myself as successful by any means. But everyone’s got d different definitions of success. But for me, I would say believing in myself, knowing that I can write, knowing that I’m a good writer has really helped me just push forward. I think in this industry especially, which is funny, I say that because every time I’m writing a new book, I think it’s the worst thing I’ve ever written in my entire life, and it’s absolute crap. But then I remind myself, no, and I would say what’s the word I’m looking for? As a writer, I can remember the words once when I’m talking. A fortitude of the mind, meaning that like even in those moments where I’m like, wow, I really suck at this. Even that’s the front of my mind, the back of my mind. I’m like, no, you don’t Keep going. Just push through. And just having that fortitude of just not listening to your own internal critics [00:24:00] and just keep your head down and keep moving forward even if it’s only a hundred words a day, it’s a hundred words a day.

Mark: Is telling yourself that how you built the confidence in yourself and in your writing.

Adam: So the way that I built the compass in my writing is a few years ago, I wrote a book for my son. That’s a whole other storyline that if I don’t have time for on this call. But I wrote a book for him, and I, my goal was to get it published for him, and that was it. And I did that and, but at the same, I was like, let me see what the world thinks of this. And so I threw some books to grammars and some for some review copies and stuff like that. And I was like, if they all hate it, that’s fine. I wrote it for him. I did that. I mean, I’ve, I, I’d always loved writing even before that. But they came back with amazing reviews. They loved it. They thought it was great. They thought it was new and invented and innovative, and they thought it was, you know, fantastic. And so I was like, that gave me that initial boost of confidence to be like, oh, okay, strangers think this is decent, let’s go. And that’s [00:25:00] kind of all I really needed because like, I knew I was a decent rider for a while, but hearing strangers say that I’m good, I’m decent, was all I needed.

Mark: Hmm. So you have that book for your son. You have, the one you did with it was JD Barker, I believe you said. How long did it take you to write this book? Is this the third, essentially your third book, but the first in this series.

Adam: No. Technically it is my four fifth book that I’ve written. I had a few y fantasy books that I did in COVID 2021, 2022 that I’ve since pre-published. Because I’m, I’m focusing on thrillers in, in that genre, mystery, suspense. So I’ve written a handful of books. I think JD Barker says you have to write 500,000 words to a million words to really get to the point where you’re like you, you know, what you can do kind of thing. And I think I’m kind of at that point, to be honest. Like if each book’s around 60, 70,000 words, three, four books in, it’s, it’s getting [00:26:00] close. The Ritualist is my first main one in the thriller genre.

Mark: Okay.

Adam: I dunno if I answered your question at all or not.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And then the question being, so now that was there a difference with this book and how long it took you to write and, and we talked a little bit about the process, but whether or not, the length of time from initial thought to a published product was faster because we didn’t really get into how long it took you from beginning to published.

Adam: right. No, it’s, it’s definitely the speed is picking up for sure. And I think that’s because I’m starting to find my rhythm. I’m starting to find my flow of when I write every day how I write, how often do I write, how fast I can write. I kind of know all that now. And so my goal is to put out between three to four books a year. I haven’t done that yet. That’s why I say it’s my goal. So 2026 is my first real year where I try and make that happen. We’ll see if it, if it holds true.

Mark: Do you have the plot developed for or ideas for the next three books? Is that how [00:27:00] you’re gonna, because it’s a se I imagine you’re doing the series the next three books.

Adam: Yes and no. So I’m not doing the series the whole time. My, my plan next year is to so the architect is gonna be booked two in the Vince Naka series. Then I’m, I’m working on a standalone also right now ’cause the architect’s done right? So I’m working on what’s next, which is gonna be a standalone. My goal is to alternate moving forward. So Vince knock a book, a standalone, Vince knock, a book, a standalone, just to break it up for myself, so I don’t get too burnt out in the series world. And so my goal next year would be to put out, two standalones and a Vince Akaka book, if not two Vince’s. But we’ll see. And then in terms of your question, I know the general premise for the next two after the architect for the Vince knock book, I know the next two. So the books three and four, I know the very vague general idea. And I typically don’t start thinking about what the actual plot until I’m about three quarters of the way through whatever I’m currently writing. And then my brain just starts kicking in like, okay, we’re almost done here. Let’s [00:28:00] focus on what’s next.

Mark: That’s a very ambitious goal to do two or three books in a year. I had the same goal, and that was quickly packed away from, because you realize, well, for me, I, I also, I use beta readers, but when you have the beta readers and the editor and then the readers, I mean, if you go back to your editor for a second time for proofread or like that whole process, it takes a lot of time even when, even if I can write a book in two months, it’s still six months from release kind of thing.

Adam: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s where I haven’t used beta readers yet, honestly, partly for that reason because I’m just trying to cut out some time if I’m starting to find that my books are starting to wane a little bit and maybe they need a little bit more like other eyeballs, I’ll do that. But I haven’t needed to yet. But again, I’ve only done a few, so I’m, I’m still newer in this world, so I, I, I acknowledge that. Yeah. But you’re right, there’s only so much time and there’s some of that time is not in your hands at all.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. My last question for you, where [00:29:00] can listeners find your book?

Adam: Yeah. So it is in KU on Amazon. So if you’re looking for the ebook version, that’s where you’re gonna find it. If you’re looking for paperback, you can find on Amazon, you can find sign copies on my website, Adam Roach books.com. And yeah, those are the two main places you can find it.

Mark: Oh, that’s great. Thank you so much for your time. I will link to that in the show notes. And thank you again for the book. I really enjoyed this read, so I’m looking forward to book two when it releases. And I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Adam: Thank you.

Mark: If you don’t mind sticking around, we’ll, we’ll hit the after show for, for our Patreon members.

Adam: Sounds great.

Mark: Thanks.

Thanks for listening and make sure you follow the show so you don’t miss next week’s conversation with Karen Osborne. We dig into the dual timelines and justice for Emerson, how her husband’s Vietnam experiences help shape Emerson’s story and the way she pulls character details from real people she encounters in everyday life.

If you want the after [00:30:00] show with the rapid fire questions, it’s free right now on Patreon, that’s where authors open up about their writing routines, the scenes they’d least wanna survive, and the strange things they’ve Googled. Links are in the show notes.