The Waveforce Affair
by Robert A. Adamcik
Season 2 Ep. 5

TPP Season 2, Episode 5 with Robert A. Adamcik

Bob: [00:00:00] Hey guys, how would you like to be brutally murdered? And they’re like, okay. They end up victims of, the bad guys with their permission. One of the characters in my fourth book grand Prix Affair, the character did not meet a pleasant end. So i’m like, sorry, you had to go. He’s like, I don’t know how to take this.

Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Thriller Pitch Podcast, the director’s cut of the thriller book world. I’m your host, mark Nadal, and joining me today is Robert Adamic, author of the Espionage Thriller, the Wave Force Affair.

Mark: Bob, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show.

Bob: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Mark: I’m excited to talk about your book, the Wave Force Affair. Let’s start with the pitch

Bob: All right. Well, white Force Affair is a thorough and espionage novel, and this particular one has a bit of a family twist as my team of agents [00:01:00] led by the epitome of the gentleman’s spy. Charles Bryce Acts where the attempts to find a missing husband that’s a friend of a friend of theirs.

He encounters something that he shouldn’t have seen and nefarious forces are after him.

Mark: All right, so where, what sparked the idea for this story?

Bob: Well, this particular addition of the martini squad adventures was based on a lieutenant. I used to support. I’m a my day job. I’m a uh, defense contractor. I’m a test engineer. And one of my lieutenants who I support is named Molly’s, like the character in the book. And she told me how she met her Costa Rican husband at the Naval Academy.

They were he was one class behind her. He was an exchange student, and he’s one of those classically handsome Latin American, dark skinned and you know, tall, dark, handsome kind of guys. He was, brown-eyed, blonde, All-American looking girl, and I’m like, oh, this could be interesting. So I kind of took that and ran [00:02:00] with it for this particular book.

Mark: What about the tech and stuff that, that you had in the book?

Bob: Oh, that’s, that’s lots and lots of research. I’m like you know, weapons, cars, especially the cars. My previous series the Guard Oil series, I was notoriously hard on my cars. I, I, well, my second book, I dropped a, a body on top of a Bentley Continental GT Speed. Ouch you know, things like that.

But yeah, all, all weapons, everything else. Researched extensively. And also Google Maps. You, you asked a question about rabbit holes. I get on rabbit hole on Google Maps between tracing routes for potential car chases and things like that. And also I find hotels, I could, I could tell you the best hotels and the best restaurants Andorra right now based on the research for this particular book.

Mark: Okay, so when you wrote this book, this is book two what was the process like writing this book? You,

Bob: once I got the idea from my conversations [00:03:00] with Molly, I just sat down. I was like, okay. Her husband’s job is actually a aviation consultant in this case for the real company. That’s so, which is what way force is based on and like, okay, what would, what, what would the so have that would interest a adversary party?

And I’m thinking, okay. Drones because that’s the the big thing right now and took that and just ran with it.

Mark: And the process itself, do you. Are you just writing? Do you wake up in the morning, particularly with this book and just start writing to figure out, or are you doing research at the same time? How does that whole process build for this

Bob: Oh, I, I write, and then if I’m like, okay, I need to, you know, research a weapon, or I need to research, you know, someplace for the team to stay, then I’ll stop, do the research, take some notes, and then get back into the writing.

Mark: And was this book like it has a kind of classic spy thriller because you’re talking about the cars, the feel, the characters, and the [00:04:00] jokes they tell. It has a very classic feel in a modern environment with modern technology. How did you balance that when you were writing it?

Bob: I said one of my favorite authors is Ian Fleming, and one of the things I learned reading his books is the sweep, and that’s what I attempt to recreate with my books. Very fast moving, but also very detailed as far as the, the who’s, the what’s and the wheres. And I just keep writing and, that’s ba basically until I’m done.

Mark: okay. What kind of challenge did this particular story present for you? If at, if you felt challenged along the way?

Bob: Making sure I got the technology right for the uh, for the drones. ’cause my background in the navy l was a ship driver, surface warfare officer. I wasn’t an aviator or anything like that. And the programs I support now. Are more on the command control, communications information technology types of thing.

So doing all the research for the drones and things of that nature was probably the biggest challenge for this book. Plus my. [00:05:00] Publisher was like, Hey Bob, you may not wanna mention people’s real last names and the company’s real names. I’m like, okay, fine. I had to come up with new, a new last name for the characters and the new name for the company.

’cause the original title was the Dasso Affair and the publisher’s like, oh, you better not use that name. I’m like, okay, fine. But other than that. I think this is one of the funnest books. I of the, of the five I’ve written so far on, on my fiction side. Obviously because the characters are based on friends of mine and all that.

But I think this one’s probably the most fun I’ve ever had writing a book.

Mark: Do your other books also bring in real world characters and people, or was that unique to this book?

Bob: It, it depends. One of the characters in my fourth book grand Prix Affair, he, the, the name was based on somebody I work with and the, the character did not meet a pleasant [00:06:00] end. So I gave, I gave the gentleman a copy of the book. I’m like, sorry, you had to go.

Mark: Yeah.

Bob: And he’s kind of he’s like, I don’t know how to take this.

Hey, don’t worry. Just just friendly. And he, he was, he was good with that. But yeah, I like to use names of people that I know and I like met the character Angel. She is based on a person I worked with when I was uh, supporting Commander Naval Air Force Atlantic. Her name was Angel Brown. Yam.

And in her particular case, she was a retired navy lieutenant commander like me, but she was a administrative what we call a limited duty officer. She rose up through the enlisted ranks as a yeoman and got her commission and then retired as a senior administrative officer, and she received her call sign Angel when she was a admin officer for a fighter squadron.

Mark: Squadron.

Bob: And I’m like, Ooh, that sounds cool. So yeah, I borrowed her name and put it second in command of my team.

Mark: And how do you approach [00:07:00] telling someone, or I guess you ask them, is it okay if I use your name, which I would assume you do. What about the likeness? Are you thinking about their personality and what you know of their personality, or is it just I’d like to use your name. I want you to know that I know this is not you, the person. This is just you, your name.

Bob: Again, except for that one character I just mentioned, all the characters I base on real people are really nice characters. So, none of ’em have had ever had a problem with me using their particular name. But yeah, if, I can, I’ll say, Hey, I’d like to use you in a book. Okay,

Mark: I’ll

Bob: may I? He was like, oh yeah, sure. Uh, in fact, um, my sixth book I’m writing right now that is tentatively titled The Incel Affair two of the victims are two lieutenants that I work with, and I approached the bro. I’m like, Hey guys, how would you like to be brutally murdered? And they’re like, okay. So yeah, they then they end up victims of, the bad guys in this, in this expert with, with their permission [00:08:00] and black wise, yeah. Pretty much describe ’em as as they’re in real life.

Mark: Awesome. So fans of this show will recognize if they read The Way Force Affair. A few people that have been on this show, Andrew Warren, Brian Drake uh, Aiden bailey, who uh, met an unfor, or I shouldn’t actually, sorry, I won’t include spoilers, but poor Aiden.

Bob: Yeah, I’ve used, I’ve used Andrew, I used Andrew’s name in, my third book, which was the, let’s see, final Strike was the third book of my guard Girl trilogy. He promoted me to ameral in, code Green, so I returned the favor and made him a aircraft carrier commander in that book.

Mark: Awesome.

When readers finish the book, what do you hope they’re thinking or feeling as they, as they

Bob: I just, I just hope he had fun. As much as I love Andrew’s, Thomas change series and it really exciting, sometimes can be a bit of a downer ’cause he, you know, Logan Wolf kind of guy, you know, same with Aiden and trigger [00:09:00] Man and Brian and you know, Sam Raven. You know, they’re all lone wolf lone wolf guys.

And uh, I’m like. Okay, that’s cool. But I want, you know, I might be able to have fun. I want the characters to, you know, like the end of the classic bond movies bonds with a girl having a drink. Good to go next. Bring it, bring on the next guy.

Mark: Is that part of all, is that how you write with all your books is bringing that like team environment, that fun,

Bob: Yeah, that’s, that’s the, at least these first five that I’ve written, the current one, it’s a little darker. Just because of the subject matter. So, you know, readers, if they pick up my, my next book, I’m about halfway done with it right now, and, and they’re gonna notice a slight tone shift only because of the nature of the, the criminals, the nature of the threat and is just a little bit darker.

Mark: Do you feel like your military experience and having that, you know, that team dynamic from the [00:10:00] military is what kind of pushed you to, in these books, not pushed you to, but inspired you to create that team dynamic from

Bob: No, absolutely. I served on six ships in my 20 years of commission service of the Navy and all the wardrobes i’ve worked with the Chief Petty officers, mass, all the enlisted crew. Everybody I’ve worked with was just awesome and I tried to, you know exemplify that spirit of, you know, you’re a crew, you’re a family in, into the into my books and like what the expression says, write what you know. So I know how to be part of a team and part of a crew.

Mark: Were there any points in the book that you changed uh, in in later drafts?

Bob: No, not really. The way I write, I tend, you know, I, I write, I start thinking, okay, okay, well what next? What do I need to do next? And I might have a two or three courses of action running through my head, but I’ll decide [00:11:00] on the course of action that I wanna use before I put finger to keyboard. So, unless there, unless my publisher wants me to make, any serious changes, like in my first book nautical Strike. The two ma, the two villains are father, daughter, and I had their relationship a little bit more intense than what is acceptable in the general mass market book. So I had to kind of tone that down a little bit. But otherwise I run the potentials through my head and then I put it down on paper.

Mark: paper. After this book, there’s an afterward at the end where you or you think a number of people, when I see like family members or wives or kids think, I always like to ask what their role was ’cause I think it’s so crucial that people crucial and interesting how different people are supported in this author journey from wives and children and how that experience plays out. [00:12:00] So what was that ex, how was that, did that play out for you? Is your wife, let’s say your biggest cheerleader. Is she reading your books? How is that play?

Bob: I’m not sure if she reads my books ’cause she’s not a big thriller, espionage person. But, she definitely indulges my, this particular hobby of mine. And, pretty much along that line, my siblings are always awesome. They read everything. I write,

Lot, lots of encouragement on the siblings side, both my siblings and my in-laws.

In fact, my late, brother-in-law was always a fan, and I dedicated my second book to him, personal strike, just before He passed away back in 21. So, yeah, de definitely the encouragement helps. And of course, a lot of my friends out there, not just thriller writer, friends, but you know, high school acquaintances, old shipmates, they’re they just love my work.

Mark: Do they ever, when they read your, do they read late stage work or early stage work? The people that your family.

Bob: Oh, I’ve never had any a family member actually look at a draft.

Mark: Okay.

Bob: It was, it [00:13:00] was always after, after it’s been published and out in the world.

Mark: What was the hardest part of writing this book from the idea to publication?

Bob: Well, like I said, this is one of the EAs funnest and, and actually one of the easiest, I, again, I think just the idea of trying to figure ’em out to the geography of where they’re gonna be. Because I’ve never been to endra, which, and after my research, it would be a really cool place to visit, but I had to figure out, okay, how do I, how do I get the, the heroes from the states to endra?

What’s, you know, what’s the roads and all that? And also part of the book takes place in Tokyo. So I had to do a little bit of research on hostess clubs. ’cause that’s where, where big portion of the story takes place. And it’s because I’ve never been to one of those before. So I’m like, what’s, what’s going on here?

Okay. And, so yeah, basically it’s just, just research, making sure I get the details right. Because if I don’t, I know I’m gonna hear about it. ’cause that’s how I, I kind of hooked up with Andrew and Brian. I’m like, Hey guys. Yeah, I’m retired [00:14:00] Navy. By the way, if when you did this, this was wrong and if you please have any questions about Navy stuff, let me know.

And, that’s how I got to be friends with Andrew and Brian.

Mark: Awesome. That’s helpful to have a team like that behind you, I imagine.

Bob: Oh yeah.

Mark: So research was one part. What about characters? How do you build characters? Because now you, instead of the lone wolf, you actually have a team. I imagine they come back throughout this series. How do you separate their voices when you’re writing them? How do you start a character and build them into the story?

Bob: Let’s see, four Grand Prix affair. I had two characters, the last name of Vaughn, McKayla, and Connor. One of them was the IT guy and the other one was the team sniper and like, okay. They got the last same last name. Obviously their call sign’s gonna be the twins, but what’s gonna make them a little different?

Well, the way I made it different was the computer guy was tall, blonde-haired, blue eyed, and the sniper [00:15:00] was a petite African American woman. So the, uh, call sign twins is obviously something very, very oh, what’s the word I’m looking for? Senior moment here. Sorry. Yeah. Something very contrary.

All and, you know, you know, little inside puns like that. Again, when I created Angel, again based on the very nice person I worked with, but her background was okay, what if I took one of the Dora Mage from the Black Panther movies, made her a Navy Seal and put her in here, and that’s what I based angel’s appearance and demeanor on.

I can’t remember the actress’s name, but she’s one of the not the lead dorm, but like the number two person with the really intense eyes. I can’t, I can’t remember.

Mark: I’m not good with names.

Bob: Yeah. And I saw her in, in Black Panther, civil War and I’m like, Ooh, she’s kind of cool. What, what could I do with that? And I put Ya’s name to that actress and [00:16:00] the background of her being the first, woman to graduate from Buds. And there you go.

Mark: you go, do you do this before you start writing the book or do you do this as you’re writing or as need characters? You develop them?

Bob: As I need as I need ’em. I’m, I’m not gonna, you know, spoilers for our Grand Prix affair, but the computer guy doesn’t survive that particular book, so I needed a new guy for way forest affair. And I, I have this great website I go to that helps generate names if I’m not using somebody I know know and I’m like, okay, I’ve got African American characters, white guy Puerto Rican. Okay. And looked up Puerto Rico name and there you go. And his, this computer guy is not exactly our average guy in the chair with the glasses and the energy drink. He’s a former Air Force PJ pair of rescue guy. Guy The team doesn’t know that at first, they just think he’s another guy in the [00:17:00] chair and all of a sudden he starts, you know. Showing marksmanship skills above and beyond what a normal computer guy would have. And it reveals that, yeah, he’s a Air Force para rescue, which is, for those who don’t know, there’s, that’s the Air Force contribution to the JSO that’s Air Force Special Operations and some of ’em are pretty close to tier one operators for their particular mission.

Mark: Mm-hmm.

Bob: So I, I went ahead and did that, and that idea came to me based on a conversation I had. Wow. About 20, over 20 years ago. my my wife and I were in Nassau at sandals Resort and one of the people we had dinner with one night, he was a, the guy was a pj and he mentioned that during dinner, and I’m like.

Whoa. Because I, no one else around the table knew what an Air Force PJ did, but I did. So I figured, okay, let’s have that same sort of reaction drop the course of the book.

Mark: what, what about their characters in the backstory? Do you build a backstory for the [00:18:00] character, things that they’ve been through? And

Bob: Yeah,

Mark: personal side.

Bob: Yeah, like for Charles, my, lead who also is by the way, based on a real person fellow bond fan who I’ve actually met in real life. Great guy. Again, the epitome of the, gentleman’s spy and he, he has you know, a sibling and things like that. So I kind of incorporate that into the story and eventually I’m building to a point where that background is gonna be become part of, if not the main story for one of my books. Further down the line.

Mark: Okay, so you’re already, you’re already well ahead.

Bob: Oh yeah.

Mark: How far ahead do you plan your, like ideas are, you just like jot down ideas and you’re like, Hey, book five, book six, book seven.

Bob: Yeah. Yeah. Actually there’s I’m working on jotting down ideas for book six. Let’s see, I think I actually answered that, question. Let’s see. Oh yeah. I heard about this place called Bohemian Grove. It’s this retreat [00:19:00] where the rich and powerful the world hang out for, for some form of retreat every year. Heard about that on some YouTube video I saw. I’m like, Hmm, that could be the setting for my next book. You write, wrote that down. Think, you know, things of that nature. So, so yeah, if something strikes me that could be potentially be interesting for a book, write it down, file it away, and, try for the next one if it, if it doesn’t relate to anything I’m working on right now.

Mark: Do you feel yourself as you’re going, like for a walk or something where you just see something you’re like, that makes a good idea, that makes a

Bob: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately I don’t have anything to write it down with, so I, I gotta make sure I remember it because I’m, I just turned 59 last week and my memory is not the way it used to be, so I, I gotta make sure I get, get home and jot it down before I forget it, and then remember it for next time.

Mark: Alright. I have a question from Susan Walters who was the last guest on the show. She asked, do you have any unsold novels sitting in your [00:20:00] desk and is there a plan for it?

Bob: Um, Hi Susan, and no, I don’t because I pretty much, since I’m, I have a day job, I just basically write one book at a time. I, I don’t have, you know, a, a draft, you know, halfway done, and then another draft, like, you know, 10% done or anything like that. I write a book, get it to my publisher, get it out the door. Did I start working on the next one? So at least for my particular case today, Susan, no.

Mark: And this book is the second book in the series, but this is the fifth book that you’ve published. Are there books that you’ve written prior to all that?

Bob: Actually before I started doing the fiction thing about, 10, 15 years ago, I was doing the nonfiction thing ’cause my degree’s in history and I have a a big interest in the space program. So my first two books I ever had published were Histories of the Space Shuttle, orbiters, discovery, and Endeavor.

And it, when those, when those first [00:21:00] books came out, it was just at the right time. It was right at the end of the program, especially the one on discovery. After I released a book on the Endeavor in 14, the interest in the program was to the point of no one was really interested in, the third book. I, I had started on the the history of the Atlantis. So my writing kind of took a backseat for a while. Then during the pandemic is when I picked it back up again, ’cause had a lot of time on my hands and I was reading a lot of books. That’s how I started with Andrew and Brian during the pandemic and like, well, wait a minute.

Maybe I, you know, I’m reading a lot. Maybe I should try writing one. And actually the one turned into three. The the Gargo Trilogy and the characters of the Martini squad, I spun off from those first three books.

Mark: Do you approach research when, because you mentioned research, you mentioned you do Google.

Bob: Oh,

Mark: Is that, are those like the main, do you, is it like, is it just a Google rabbit hole of research that kind of goes from website to Website to website?

Bob: That’s where I start. I’ve also [00:22:00] found some great YouTube videos on like the Mark six patrol craft that I use in the final strike. Found some great videos on that. Also, the, in my first book I used the sock sock car boats that, the riverine boats that the what we call the dirty boat guys.

The swix use for riverine. They carry a crew of four and eight seals. And found some great videos on that and also some my, personal connections with the Navy. For final strike, I had two mark, six boats in the well deck of a, LSD 41 class of wood be island class, amphibious, ship. And one of the per people I work with.

In my day job was First Lieutenant on one of those, and he turned me onto the Well deck manual that explained how those boats are stored in A LSD class, well deck and how they’re tied up and how they, exit the well when they launch and all that. and I took that information that he provided and put in the book.

And then I also included him as another [00:23:00] character. He was the ship’s boon you know, on the I think it was Carter Hall. It was the ship I used for that book, and he was the guy who actually controlled the weld deck and launched the, launched those craft for me. So,

Mark: How do you balance when you’re, when you talk about these things in your book, making it clear to the reader what it is without overwhelming them with the technicalities? I know part of the genre is the technicality, so there is an element of that in the genre.

Bob: That, that’s a balance. And if if somebody’s doing a beta read for me. I’ll get the feedback back, Hey, you may wanna tweak down, turn down the, the technical jargon of a little bit. ’cause I always prided myself in that I could write these things and in a way that the average person could just can understand it.

Even with my nonfiction work on the shuttle, I tried to scale back the the, acronyms and the the lingo and everything else as best I could.

Mark: Mm-hmm.

Bob: But you know. Somebody, if I have it a little too much, my beta readers will tell me to back off a little bit. I’ll, I’ll do a little tweaking and I’ll carry [00:24:00] on.

Mark: Okay. What advice would you give someone who just published their first or second book?

Bob: Beware of marketing scammers. I’m serious. My inbox gets flooded with them. I usually tell ’em to bugger off and block ’em and carry on.

Mark: Yeah, you’re talking about the book club. Well, Book clubs, I guess are the most, currently the most popular

Bob: and people like, Hey, we can help you boost your good read score and things of that nature. Just give us money. I’m like, no, I’m not. You know, if you, if you don’t wanna do it, you know, help me do that for free. Don’t, don’t bother. Get outta here.

Mark: What about on the advice on the creative side?

Bob: again, just write what you know. That’s, that’s the best advice I can give anybody. Don’t try, don’t try to do something, out there. Unless you really wanted to spend the time in doing the research, you just write what you know.

Mark: If you can pick one thing that you felt has led to your success so far, what would it be? [00:25:00]

Bob: Oh, wow. Just persistence. Sometimes, you know, I read my, I read the reviews. All of ’em are great, and some of them are not so great. And I just put the not so great ones behind me. Take the lessons learned from ’em and apply ’em as necessary. But just, Just just keep going.

Mark: Just keep writing the next

Bob: Just keep writing.

Mark: And where can listeners find your book and hear more from you?

Bob: Oh, okay. Well, all my books are on Amazon. The Barnes and Noble, both the hard copy and, Eco available, all the various outlets. And I have a Facebook page. It’s Robert, a Adam check dash author. That’s, I can find me on, on Facebook and my if you want to email me regarding book stuff, it’s gargoyle.Morgan@gmail.com.

Gargoyle was the call sign for my protagonist in my first three books, James Robert, Bob Morgan. And he got that call sign because of [00:26:00] a conversation I had with my commanding officer on the baton. Captain Howard was an one, an amazing captain. Probably the best COI ever worked with, and I worked with over a dozen.

In my career, he was a former F 18 pilot, so eight six intruder and F 18 pilot went from the intruder to the Hornet, and I’m on the bridge. I was his navigator and I’m on the bridge. I’m wearing a set of gargoyle wraparound shades. Of course Captain Allard being the aviator. He was, he was, you know, RayBan guy, and he sees the, the brand of sunglasses I’m wearing.

He is like. I said, call you guard oil. I’m like, skipper, that’s an outstanding call sign. Thank you. And he’s like, ah, nevermind. I was just calling you a gator because I was just not a gator. So, but I remembered that conversation and used that for the call sign for my the hero of my first book. And so hence carvilleMorgan@gmail.com is the, email Addie for all my book stuff.

Mark: Okay. Thank you. [00:27:00] That’s great. You must look at like, if you reread some of your own books, even like 10 years from now, it must be like a blast from the past where you think you get to think like you have an experience and nobody else has when you read your books. Because of the way, I love that, because of the way you’ve added these, you know, people and

Bob: Oh yeah.

Mark: Where you, you just, you can remember these people. They’re like

Bob: Yeah, there, there

Mark: in time.

Bob: Yeah, people I’ve served with the Deputy Director of operations for CIA, or excuse me, deputy Director of Intelligence for CIA in both my first three books. And the first book of the Martini squad was, based on an actual, Marine Corps retired Lieutenant General. I served with when I was navigator on Baton, he was then Colonel Bailey, commanding officer of Second Marine Regiment. And we, we took him and his, marines to Iraq and back in 2003, and again, one of the best, finest officers I’ve ever served with.

When I heard he retired a Lieutenant General, I’m like, Hmm, not surprised. [00:28:00] Right guy, smart guy. Guy. And I remember him really because one day just out of the blue, I’m walking, walking by his cabin and he’s like, Hey commander amk, come on over here I go, yes, sir. You know, not often. I get called into a marine colonel’s cabin and he presented me one of his regimental, t-shirts, had the regimental logo on the front and on the back was a task force. Tara Iraq, 2003 on the back. And he is like, Hey, commander, I think you’re a really professional guy.

Love working with you. He’s a memento of our time onboard the ship and it, it just struck me as like, wow, nobody’s ever really done that before. Yeah. So in fact, I still have that t-shirt, it’s framed in my office. And so when it came time for a very senior agency person, yeah, general Bailey was top of my list to make, make that character. And of course I actually tracked him down and talked to him on the phone and sent him a copy.

Mark: That’s awesome. I [00:29:00] love that story. I love how you do that.

Bob: And also same with the deputy director of operations was named for my commanding officer on John F. Kennedy Dennis Fitzpatrick, who is now a retired wear admiral and again, outstanding commanding officer, and I’m like, okay, I got, I got put him in the books as well.

Mark: Yeah. Well, Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. For those who are listening, we are about to go into the spoiler section. So I am going to ask a couple of spoiler questions. So if you don’t wanna know what happens at the end of the book, you may not wanna listen to the next the last yeah, yeah, yeah, You can pause, read the book, come back, and then you won’t it won’t spoil it for you. So was there any inspiration to one of the, at the end of the book, essentially what the main conflict ends in this ma in this big kinda airplane, stunt airplane, parachuting the PJ comes out and this whole stunt sequence. What was the inspiration behind that?

Bob: I just, the idea just came to my head. It [00:30:00] is like, what would be a great set piece in a movie? What would I wanna see in onscreen to happen to, to rescue, poor, uh, Rafa from the Russians? And I’m like, and of course again, I got a PJ working here. I’m like, and a seal. I’m like, okay, let’s do a little air to air. Plus, Molly she is a former naval aviator and she flew the P three Orion, maritime patrol craft as a large multi engine, prop, maritime patrol plane. So I’m like, okay, let’s get Molly into the cockpit. Now. Why would I want Molly in the cockpit for something skydiving? Okay. And then I just kind of progress progress that way.

Mark: I don’t know a lot about planes and, and, you know, aerodynamics and the, and the odds of things. Do you look at like the plausibility of, I kind of see Tom Cruise doing the end of the, the end of this movie, so to speak you know, That Mission impossible jumping plane to plane. Do you think about the plausibility of such a thing? I don’t even [00:31:00] know how plausible it is or isn’t what happened there, but do you consider those things or are you just this is a thriller, this is fun.

Bob: yeah. This particular case, I tried to get it, keep it as real as possible, but yeah, there’s, there’s some dramatic license I, I took. On that one, I have no idea. If you, if you’re jumping from one plate to the other, could you actually hold onto the side of the f fuselage, long enough to plant the little baby explosives to blow the door so you can actually climb on board? I have no idea if that can happen. If it can’t, sorry. If it can’t. Outstanding.

Mark: Yeah. Okay. I, I’m, I do, I rock climb. So I’m trying to think of some, how hard it is to hold onto things. ’cause people sometimes underestimate when I see Tom Cruise do it, I’m like, yeah, there’s no possible way he’s holding something like he does in some of the situations that he does. ‘Cause you know, he has this rock climbing stunts. But

Bob: Yeah, well, RO Rogue Nation, when he took off on that Airbus, a 400 he was definitely holding onto that to the side of that aircraft. But they had a shield in front of him to help deflect the wind. So he wasn’t quite getting buffeted as hard as he would be if he, if it didn’t have [00:32:00] that.

Mark: Yeah, true enough. Yeah. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing her name. Zena. Is it Zena? Is that how you pronounce Zena? Zena the, the, antagonist in the book.

Bob: Oh,

Mark: I said Xena when I was reading it in my

Bob: no, that’s, that’s, that’s cool. I,

Mark: okay.

Bob: you are good.

Mark: Okay. When she dies. At the end, Bryce reacts by saying he mourned the loss of his former lover ’cause they have that history together. Then he’s quoted as saying, burn in hell, more or less. Was it always written that way? And in your view, what does it say? Were you trying to say something about Bryce’s as his character

Bob: Yeah. I mean, when Bryce first met the later Russian agent, he, he knew her as somebody completely different. She was Polish, not Russian, and she was an engineering grad student at USC while he was in in school. So that’s the person he mourned. But the person, he later found out she was [00:33:00] and, you know, turned out to be, that’s the bit she was burning in hell.

Mark: Okay.

Was there any moments that you found hard to write in this, book?

Bob: In this, in

Mark: Like any scenes that were like emotionally impactful, I guess would be a better question.

Bob: Yeah. The stuff about Bryce Discover first discovering that his former girlfriend was actually an SVR operative. That was a little bit, hard to write because, I mean, he knew her forever. As you know, this hot Polish girl at, you, you know, came close to actually marrying before she went back to Poland.

And then all of a sudden he’s on a, he’s on an op in, Slovakia, and brought to s Slava and he sees her on a monitor, shooting a guy in the head. I mean, that’s, that’s, that doesn’t make give you pause. Nothing Will

Mark: yeah. I can’t imagine what well, I guess I can’t imagine what was going through his head because you talked about it in the book, but it’s still hard to imagine how I might react to seeing someone you were just, you were in love with at one time. Suddenly assassinate [00:34:00] somebody.

Bob: Yeah. In cold blood then steals his, take, takes the money back that he she just gave him. And then her, her thugs steal his wallet and his watch. I mean, like I said, that’s VR very, very cheap.

Mark: Well, Thank you so much. That’s all the questions I had for the show. If you don’t mind sticking around for a few more minutes for the after show the rapid fire questions for our Patreon

Bob: standing by

Mark: All right, thank you.